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linux-works

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good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« on: March 03, , 06:01:23 pm » I know all the 'hardware store' brands (dewalt, etc) are all made in china using crap steel, these days.

not sure if the german brands like wera and wiha are all that much better.  my guess is that they are not and just charge a lot more.  I do have some wera handle screwdrivers and they are great, but wondering if the bit style stuff is any good?  even bosch is made in china, now, so that seems a non-starter to me.

it would be great to see some kind of sorted list with the best (likely expensive) brands listed first, going down to the crap brands that are to be avoided.  anyone feel like starting such a sorted list?  I'd like to invest in a GOOD set of driver bits (ph00 thru ph2, plus the other typical bits) once, if possible, rather than re-buying over and over.

nctnico

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #1 on: March 03, , 06:04:35 pm » To make matters worse it also depends on where you buy it. Shops which compete on price (like the DIY home improvement stores) usually carry A-brand tools with lesser quality. There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.

Marco

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #2 on: March 03, , 06:22:00 pm » Witte says they are made in Germany and the normal bits (~60 HRC, not the ones with the gold paint) are cheap as chips.

PS. any decent drill and a good stuck screw can still destroy them and they will fail eventually. These are disposable items regardless of where the steel comes from. « Last Edit: March 03, , 06:33:12 pm by Marco »

ataradov

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #3 on: March 03, , 06:32:41 pm » I find it to be luck-based. I buy tools that look decent, and then if they also last, then they last. If not, so be it.

One of my best set of screwdrivers if from Home Depot, but when I realized that and went back to buy some more, they have already discontinued it. Alex

Monkeh

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #4 on: March 03, , 06:35:52 pm » Hard bits are rapidly becoming rarer - they're mostly used with power tools and especially impact drivers. Shattering hardened bits every 20 screws is boring.

plazma

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #5 on: March 03, , 06:55:58 pm » I have WIHA brand TX4 and TX6 bits and they have lasted well. No name China bits only last 5-10 screws.

tautech

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #6 on: March 03, , 07:13:08 pm » You can bust any of them but probably Apex have been around longer than most and make good stuff.
I first bought their impact sockets ~40 years back and still have them.
http://www.apex-tools.com/ Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

David Hess

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #7 on: March 04, , 01:08:24 am »

Hard bits are rapidly becoming rarer - they're mostly used with power tools and especially impact drivers. Shattering hardened bits every 20 screws is boring.

I have a couple of screwdrivers which use standard 1/4" hex bits which are available in all kinds of ends and replaceable.  I have not tried it yet but the impact driver 1/4" hex bits might be tougher and they are cheap enough.

What I really want a screwdriver which uses 1/4" hex bits that has an actual collet to hold the bit tightly instead of just using a magnet.

tautech

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #8 on: March 04, , 01:50:36 am »

Hard bits are rapidly becoming rarer - they're mostly used with power tools and especially impact drivers. Shattering hardened bits every 20 screws is boring.

I have a couple of screwdrivers which use standard 1/4" hex bits which are available in all kinds of ends and replaceable.  I have not tried it yet but the impact driver 1/4" hex bits might be tougher and they are cheap enough.

What I really want a screwdriver which uses 1/4" hex bits that has an actual collet to hold the bit tightly instead of just using a magnet.

I've got an SK that I've had for eons and it's had all manner of use for 40 years. Just checked online in a generic search for SK and found a pic of mine:


You can still buy them after 4 decades amazingly. 
https://www.centurytool.net/_SK_Hand_Tool_4_MAG_SCWDR_4_Bits_p/skt.htm

Mines been to hell and back in all that time and with the grip style they have I would heartily recommend them for the excellent grip they offer. The magnet is still good and strong. Avid Rabid Hobbyist.

David Hess

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #9 on: March 04, , 02:09:37 am »

I've got an SK that I've had for eons and it's had all manner of use for 40 years. Just checked online in a generic search for SK and found a pic of mine:

...

Mines been to hell and back in all that time and with the grip style they have I would heartily recommend them for the excellent grip they offer. The magnet is still good and strong.

That is basically what I have now.  The problem is that only having a magnet lets the bit wobble too much which is especially annoying if a longer impact type of bit is used.  Some impact drivers use a mechanical collet assembly to hold the bit by the depression at the end but I have not seen any screwdrivers which do this. 

Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #10 on: March 04, , 02:13:15 am » Hi,

You might want to visit a Snap-on tool truck. I have had good success with their ACR Philips and Pozidrive bits. They have grooves in them that stop cam-out:





Make sure you get pozidrive and Philips bits.

Snap-on is normally expensive, but these bits are quite reasonable.

I also like Wera screwdrivers.

Look for S2 steel alloy. It is generally considered to be the best for screw drivers and hex keys. It has to be machined accurately and heat treated properly.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

Stray Electron

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #11 on: March 04, , 02:32:04 am »   I bought a set of gunsmithing screw drivers from Brownells in Montana and I use them for things that I care about the finish.  I hollow grind my on bits on a milling machine when I need a special size. I hold the bit in a collet in a rotating and indexed collet holder and lock it in a vice and I grind the bit with a rotating grinding stone held in the spindle.

  Take a close look at how well your SD bit fits the screw. If it's a poor fit get a different SD.  Any SD with a tapered bit is going to try to force the bit out of the screw when you use it and that will frequently damage the screw and the surrounding surface.  The BEST bits are hollow ground so that they wedge themselves into the socket instead of out of it.  Bit that are completely straight will usually work ok but not if you really care about messing up the screw or if the screw is very tight.

Monkeh

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #12 on: March 04, , 02:39:23 am »

  I bought a set of gunsmithing screw drivers from Brownells in Montana and I use them for things that I care about the finish.  I hollow grind my on bits on a milling machine when I need a special size. I hold the bit in a collet in a rotating and indexed collet holder and lock it in a vice and I grind the bit with a rotating grinding stone held in the spindle.

  Take a close look at how well your SD bit fits the screw. If it's a poor fit get a different SD.  Any SD with a tapered bit is going to try to force the bit out of the screw when you use it and that will frequently damage the screw and the surrounding surface.  The BEST bits are hollow ground so that they wedge themselves into the socket instead of out of it.  Bit that are completely straight will usually work ok but not if you really care about messing up the screw or if the screw is very tight.

Flat bits. Very amusing. Is it still the s somewhere?

chipss

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #13 on: March 04, , 07:55:39 pm » Wiha!

plazma

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #14 on: March 04, , 07:59:04 pm » Has anyone tried this set?
https://www.banggood.com/XIAOMI-Wiha-25-in-1-Screwdrivers-Kits-With-24pcs-S2-Steel-Screw-Bits-and-Aluminium-Alloy-Screwdriver-p-.html

HighVoltage

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #15 on: March 04, , 08:03:21 pm » Search for "WERA extra hart"
They are made in Germany and really reliable and good.

« Last Edit: March 04, , 08:05:37 pm by HighVoltage » There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.

bd139

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #16 on: March 04, , 09:21:20 pm » Another vote for Wera. I've standardised on their equipment. It's way above everything else I've tried including Wiha.

jitter

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #17 on: March 04, , 09:49:41 pm »

I know all the 'hardware store' brands (dewalt, etc) are all made in china using crap steel, these days.

not sure if the german brands like wera and wiha are all that much better.  my guess is that they are not and just charge a lot more.  I do have some wera handle screwdrivers and they are great, but wondering if the bit style stuff is any good?  even bosch is made in china, now, so that seems a non-starter to me.

it would be great to see some kind of sorted list with the best (likely expensive) brands listed first, going down to the crap brands that are to be avoided.  anyone feel like starting such a sorted list?  I'd like to invest in a GOOD set of driver bits (ph00 thru ph2, plus the other typical bits) once, if possible, rather than re-buying over and over.

Stuff can be made really poorly in China, but also really well; unfortunately it's not always easy to tell.
Perhaps the best advice would be to find out what tradesmen swear by?

At work I have experience with Snap On and Wiha bits. The anti cam out ridges on the Snap On are a nice feature, but a good fitting bit without them will do just fine.
Currently I'm using Wiha bits, and even the standard version has a good fit and lifetime. Wiha doesn't make a secret of their manufacturing locations: Germany, Poland and Vietnam.

Other brands that I work with and trust (but no experience with their bits) are Gedore, Stahlwille, PB Swisstools and Wera.

For tough bits I would be looking at those made for impact drivers.
« Last Edit: March 05, , 12:35:21 pm by jitter »

pfrcom

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #18 on: March 05, , 02:04:34 am »

Has anyone tried this set?
https://www.banggood.com/XIAOMI-Wiha-25-in-1-Screwdrivers-Kits-With-24pcs-S2-Steel-Screw-Bits-and-Aluminium-Alloy-Screwdriver-p-.html

Love mine, although I haven't put any pressure on it yet 

David Hess

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #19 on: March 05, , 02:26:29 am » The Wera bit holding screwdrivers which can be used with power blade are probably what I was looking for.

http://products.wera.de/en/kraftform_kompakt_bitholding_screwdrivers_and_adaptors.html

Wiha has something similar on one of their screwdrivers:

https://www.wihatools.com/wiha-centrofix-1-4-power-blade-handle

Either should work with inexpensive hardened 1/4" hex drive bits intended for impact applications without being lose like with a magnetic bit holder.

ChuckDarwin

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #20 on: March 05, , 05:38:33 am »

Has anyone tried this set?
https://www.banggood.com/XIAOMI-Wiha-25-in-1-Screwdrivers-Kits-With-24pcs-S2-Steel-Screw-Bits-and-Aluminium-Alloy-Screwdriver-p-.html

I keep a set in my field bag for small stuff.  They work well, tips stay snug in the handle unless the device head is really grabby; and they pack up nicely.  I had to borrow two special bits from another set to complete mine. A socket for D-shell nuts would be nice.  The bit gives you about 15mm of depth onto a recess, or if you can get the neck of the tool in, about 40mm of length.  Maybe an extension in the next version.  Moderate usage and haven't damaged any bits yet.

Slowly moving most hand tools way from old xcelite to wiha and wera

ajb

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #21 on: March 05, , 08:01:55 pm »

What I really want a screwdriver which uses 1/4" hex bits that has an actual collet to hold the bit tightly instead of just using a magnet.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#A43

Of course the retention mechanism adds considerably to the diameter of the working end, which could be problematic.  I have an extension I use in my impact driver that has a retaining ring inside the bit socket, so it's no bigger than a typical extension but holds the bit very securely (sometimes requiring pliers to remove it).  I think it's the same style as the extension in this kit, but I bought it separately.  I was actually looking to get a screwdriver handle like this, so I could use thinner high-retention extensions or even long insert bits, but I haven't found just the handle for a reasonable price in the US.

For good quality bits, I've generally gone to McMaster--you never really know what brand you're going to get, but they're always high quality.  For Torx bits, the ones that are sold at hardware stores alongside the fancy construction screws (GRK, Spax brands for instance) are very good and often color-coded.

hli

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #22 on: March 05, , 08:37:38 pm » I have Wiha bits, both in Pozidrive and Philips, for more than ten years, and they are nearly as new. These were the standard ones, nothing special hardened. But then I also take care of selecting the right bit for the screw, so that they fit properly. Nothing kills bits faster than when they loose grip and you don't stop.

BBBbbb

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #23 on: March 05, , 09:07:17 pm » I have (or had) both Wiha and Wera. Both are good, but I'd give Wiha an adventage. Seem more resilient to torture.
Positively surprised by this one, I bought a year ago:
https://www.wiha.com/en-int/produkte/multitools/screwdriver-with-bit-magazine-magnetic-assorted-with-8-bits-in-blister-pack-1-4-.html

Almost good as new and became my first choice...

My general rules:
Pliers - Knipex
bits, screwdrivers - Wiha
L or T allen keys - Bondhus (somehow Bondhus makes them indestructible and very precise, they are kings of allen (hex) keys, and cheap...)

GreyWoolfe

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Re: good brand for hard screwdriver bits

« Reply #24 on: March 05, , 10:04:41 pm »

L or T allen keys - Bondhus (somehow Bondhus makes them indestructible and very precise, they are kings of allen (hex) keys, and cheap...)

I have a few Bondhus ball head TORX drivers.  I got them for a piece of equipment that we no longer have.  7 years of continuous use and just some of the black finish worn off of the ball head.    They now reside in my tool chest. 
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